Comments on: Cheermongers and Hope Fiends – Part 2 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/ A middle class white guy comes to grips with Peak Oil, Climate Change, Mass Extinction, Population Overshoot Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:17:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: AV http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-857 AV Thu, 17 May 2007 16:58:31 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-857 Folks, http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2534 Worth reading. I was especially impressed with the comaprison of how large a population reduction we will need and what that looks like by comaprison to Iraq. AV Folks,

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2534

Worth reading. I was especially impressed with the comaprison of how large a population reduction we will need and what that looks like by comaprison to Iraq.

AV

]]> By: becky http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-869 becky Fri, 18 May 2007 01:33:06 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-869 thank you, AV! thank you, AV!

]]> By: Dan http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-889 Dan Fri, 18 May 2007 14:04:48 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-889 I agree, AV. And what a beautiful Freudian typo - Iraq as coma prison, as in only a culture in a (self-delusional) coma could imprison itself in such a way (to say nothing of the Iraqis themselves). This discussion of population at TOD is also well worth reading, including the comments: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2516 Dan I agree, AV. And what a beautiful Freudian typo - Iraq as coma prison, as in only a culture in a (self-delusional) coma could imprison itself in such a way (to say nothing of the Iraqis themselves). This discussion of population at TOD is also well worth reading, including the comments: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2516

Dan

]]> By: True http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-918 True Sat, 19 May 2007 05:32:15 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-918 Interesting blog. Here's my take on it. I would classify a fearmongerer as someone that ONLY looks at the Dark, and a cheermongerer as one that only looks at the light. People need to be aware of both sides, as many non-western cultures understood. After taking a Permaculture Design class, I realized that I dwelled too much on the negative. I kept reading stuff over and over again on subjects the I already knew much about. I wasn't really being fair to myself or making myself happy. conversely many of my classmates dwelled too much on the light ("let's run our cars on french fry greese"), without understanding enough of the problem. reading the Tao Te Ching, I recently ran across this sagacious passage: "carry the Yin on your back and the Yang in your embrace." In my own words, someone "not liking" what you have to say is not a valid argument, while focusing just on the problem could hardly be called a solution. Each has its own place. I now try to look at the world's problems as logically and clear-headedly as I can, and when I'm working on solutions I try to stay positive, though not in a glib way, but more as a strategy. Interesting blog. Here’s my take on it. I would classify a fearmongerer as someone that ONLY looks at the Dark, and a cheermongerer as one that only looks at the light. People need to be aware of both sides, as many non-western cultures understood.

After taking a Permaculture Design class, I realized that I dwelled too much on the negative. I kept reading stuff over and over again on subjects the I already knew much about. I wasn’t really being fair to myself or making myself happy. conversely many of my classmates dwelled too much on the light (”let’s run our cars on french fry greese”), without understanding enough of the problem.

reading the Tao Te Ching, I recently ran across this sagacious passage: “carry the Yin on your back and the Yang in your embrace.” In my own words, someone “not liking” what you have to say is not a valid argument, while focusing just on the problem could hardly be called a solution. Each has its own place.

I now try to look at the world’s problems as logically and clear-headedly as I can, and when I’m working on solutions I try to stay positive, though not in a glib way, but more as a strategy.

]]> By: Ted Howard http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-980 Ted Howard Sun, 20 May 2007 21:44:19 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-980 Hey True In the face of an insane culture, where the majority are permanently stuck in chearmongering and positivity (even though increasing evidence shows there is little foundation for it), we need to acknowledge what's really happening! IMHO we live in a shallow or false consensus trance bubble of materialistic happiness. A lot of what we do and a lot of the way we think is anthropocentric bullshit. Quite a few indigenous cultures have tried to explain this to us for a very long time! If this comes over as fearmongering, so be it. I'm terrified at what I can see going on. The planet isn't dying, she's being killed by us 'civilised' ones. I'm full of fear, sadness and grief at the collapse of the biosphere already underway. This is not so much for me and my community, but the mass extinction underway (at a rate never seen before in geological time), the loss of all that stunningly beautiful life that deserves to be as much as we do. If we don't take a stand for this life, and raise our voice against this, who will? If not now, when? We need insight and compassion for sure to deal with this! Read the Shambhala Prophesy at http://www.joannamacy.net/html/great.html# Tim and Sally you are doing Shambhala Warrior work, and I support you in it. Regards Ted Hey True
In the face of an insane culture, where the majority are permanently stuck in chearmongering and positivity (even though increasing evidence shows there is little foundation for it), we need to acknowledge what’s really happening!

IMHO we live in a shallow or false consensus trance bubble of materialistic happiness. A lot of what we do and a lot of the way we think is anthropocentric bullshit. Quite a few indigenous cultures have tried to explain this to us for a very long time!

If this comes over as fearmongering, so be it. I’m terrified at what I can see going on. The planet isn’t dying, she’s being killed by us ‘civilised’ ones. I’m full of fear, sadness and grief at the collapse of the biosphere already underway.

This is not so much for me and my community, but the mass extinction underway (at a rate never seen before in geological time), the loss of all that stunningly beautiful life that deserves to be as much as we do.

If we don’t take a stand for this life, and raise our voice against this, who will? If not now, when?

We need insight and compassion for sure to deal with this! Read the Shambhala Prophesy at http://www.joannamacy.net/html/great.html#

Tim and Sally you are doing Shambhala Warrior work, and I support you in it.

Regards
Ted

]]> By: Peace Train to DC http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1022 Peace Train to DC Tue, 22 May 2007 04:55:17 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1022 Peace Training: Conservation, a Strategy for a Life of Comfort, Joy & Ease. Step 1. Stop flying in jet aircraft. Your travel choice matters. We don't have time to not have time. Trains don't leave contrails. Skip the Plane, Take the Train Peace Training:
Conservation, a Strategy for a Life of Comfort, Joy & Ease.

Step 1. Stop flying in jet aircraft. Your travel choice matters. We don’t have time to not have time. Trains don’t leave contrails. Skip the Plane, Take the Train

]]> By: True http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1061 True Wed, 23 May 2007 08:48:10 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1061 Ted, I would have to say that I agree with your analysis. There are too many cheermongerers and not enough people looking at the ugly side of what's going on. The first step is to be informed, which is why this is such a good movie. Then come the responses (not solutions). Then, the trick is to work on responses without ever losing sight of the problem and becoming delusioned. I admit that the chances of their being a good ending to this story is unlikely. Though my expectations and my hopes for this thing are very disparate, I try to be the change I wish to see," as Gandhi admonished. I am a Permaculture farmer, I show movie screenings in my community, and I am relearning all sorts of skills that have been lost in this culture; I would have to say that it feels very good. -True Ted,
I would have to say that I agree with your analysis. There are too many cheermongerers and not enough people looking at the ugly side of what’s going on. The first step is to be informed, which is why this is such a good movie. Then come the responses (not solutions). Then, the trick is to work on responses without ever losing sight of the problem and becoming delusioned.

I admit that the chances of their being a good ending to this story is unlikely. Though my expectations and my hopes for this thing are very disparate, I try to be the change I wish to see,” as Gandhi admonished. I am a Permaculture farmer, I show movie screenings in my community, and I am relearning all sorts of skills that have been lost in this culture; I would have to say that it feels very good.
-True

]]> By: Randy White http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1101 Randy White Thu, 24 May 2007 17:02:26 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1101 I am trying to help people with solutions, but they just don't want to hear there is a problem. For instance, I built a nationwide carpool network to help people locate their neighbors willing to carpool. But as gas prices rise, people would rather cut back on other things, rather than give up the freedom of car culture. Lawns to Gardens features "How To" videos for learning to grow food at home, but I doubt they are watched that often. My wife even thinks that preparing for collapse is "going too far", and if the system fails, "so be it, we deserve to get kicked off this planet". If we go from a culture of "There's nothing wrong, there's nothing wrong to "There's no hope we're doomed!", then we are certanly dead. I believe in acting now to prevent total collapse. It's the shocks to the system that should wake people up... but even Katrina hasn't made us stop and think. America keeps plodding along, because people want to keep their jobs - all connected to money - all connected to growth. Ultimately, we are trying to grow when we already have too many of us in the limited bowl... many people will start dying very soon. It's a sad fact of limits to growth, thanks to our ignorance and evil governments that refuse to tell humans the truth. I am trying to help people with solutions, but they just don’t want to hear there is a problem.

For instance, I built a nationwide carpool network to help people locate their neighbors willing to carpool. But as gas prices rise, people would rather cut back on other things, rather than give up the freedom of car culture.

Lawns to Gardens features “How To” videos for learning to grow food at home, but I doubt they are watched that often.

My wife even thinks that preparing for collapse is “going too far”, and if the system fails, “so be it, we deserve to get kicked off this planet”.

If we go from a culture of “There’s nothing wrong, there’s nothing wrong to “There’s no hope we’re doomed!”, then we are certanly dead.

I believe in acting now to prevent total collapse. It’s the shocks to the system that should wake people up… but even Katrina hasn’t made us stop and think. America keeps plodding along, because people want to keep their jobs - all connected to money - all connected to growth.

Ultimately, we are trying to grow when we already have too many of us in the limited bowl… many people will start dying very soon.

It’s a sad fact of limits to growth, thanks to our ignorance and evil governments that refuse to tell humans the truth.

]]> By: wendi http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1144 wendi Fri, 25 May 2007 18:34:31 +0000 http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/17/cheermongers-and-hope-fiends-%e2%80%93-part-2/#comment-1144 Tim, It strikes me as rather obscene and pathetic that it should require suffering sexual or physical abuse; losing a child to malnutrition; being forced by militia to slaughter your parents; suffering untreated disease or starvation; growing up in a war zone; or other such “catastrophes,” or “traumas” to, as you write, “be better able to meet the coming challenges, to more freely blaze the new trails of lifestyle and being that must be created if we are to have a chance at escaping the oblivion of extinction.” I believe that anyone who occasionally, at least, lets go of ego, and more than occasionally lives consciously and spiritually, is able to be fully present and feel the reality of our screaming surroundings, and then surrender to the inevitability and essential running out of time. It is said that the “weapons” of Shambhala are compassion and insight. Compassion powers one to act on behalf of all sentient beings, and insight provides to depth of understanding that all beings are interconnected, and the ripple effects of one being’s actions affect the universe entire. Thus, Tim and Sally’s work is prayerfully to encourage and weave a continuity of wakefulness where there is silence, fear, and denial, underlying all the changing conditions of life. Tim, It strikes me as rather obscene and pathetic that it should require suffering sexual or physical abuse; losing a child to malnutrition; being forced by militia to slaughter your parents; suffering untreated disease or starvation; growing up in a war zone; or other such “catastrophes,” or “traumas” to, as you write, “be better able to meet the coming challenges, to more freely blaze the new trails of lifestyle and being that must be created if we are to have a chance at escaping the oblivion of extinction.”
I believe that anyone who occasionally, at least, lets go of ego, and more than occasionally lives consciously and spiritually, is able to be fully present and feel the reality of our screaming surroundings, and then surrender to the inevitability and essential running out of time.
It is said that the “weapons” of Shambhala are compassion and insight. Compassion powers one to act on behalf of all sentient beings, and insight provides to depth of understanding that all beings are interconnected, and the ripple effects of one being’s actions affect the universe entire. Thus, Tim and Sally’s work is prayerfully to encourage and weave a continuity of wakefulness where there is silence, fear, and denial, underlying all the changing conditions of life.

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