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	<title>Comments on: Répondez S&#8217;il Vous Plaît, Part 1</title>
	<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/</link>
	<description>A middle class white guy comes to grips with Peak Oil, Climate Change, Mass Extinction, Population Overshoot</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: auntiegrav</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5007</link>
		<author>auntiegrav</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5007</guid>
					<description>Hi, Me again.
The problem is not in the idea of 'solutions', but in the lack of proper references to work with. Your 'response' system is still a solution. It just doesn't assume we know what we are planning. That is the root defect with using current levels of thinking: people don't have the fundamental knowledge of what the human race is FOR, so how can they base any system of calculation or planning on that lack of knowledge?
That's like dividing by zero: at first glance, it is just another number, like 1 or 4 or 9, but the reality is that it represents the LACK of a number. Our world's 'solutions' are all done with equations that use fiat religious 'purpose' to define morality and authority. These concepts are usually based on Faith in Goodness or Hope or some other non-existent commodity of emotion, rather than our actual place, or actual usefulness to the future of the planet. Response is short-minded, and dependent upon an environment that is in control of itself enough that we can follow its lead. Unfortunately, we have become the driving force which is already determining the fate of the environment, so we MUST make plans and change our present behavior based on REAL purpose (Net Creativity) that adds to the future usefulness of our species and the universe cooperatively. We cannot wait for the environment to tell us how to do that anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Me again.<br />
The problem is not in the idea of &#8217;solutions&#8217;, but in the lack of proper references to work with. Your &#8216;response&#8217; system is still a solution. It just doesn&#8217;t assume we know what we are planning. That is the root defect with using current levels of thinking: people don&#8217;t have the fundamental knowledge of what the human race is FOR, so how can they base any system of calculation or planning on that lack of knowledge?<br />
That&#8217;s like dividing by zero: at first glance, it is just another number, like 1 or 4 or 9, but the reality is that it represents the LACK of a number. Our world&#8217;s &#8217;solutions&#8217; are all done with equations that use fiat religious &#8216;purpose&#8217; to define morality and authority. These concepts are usually based on Faith in Goodness or Hope or some other non-existent commodity of emotion, rather than our actual place, or actual usefulness to the future of the planet. Response is short-minded, and dependent upon an environment that is in control of itself enough that we can follow its lead. Unfortunately, we have become the driving force which is already determining the fate of the environment, so we MUST make plans and change our present behavior based on REAL purpose (Net Creativity) that adds to the future usefulness of our species and the universe cooperatively. We cannot wait for the environment to tell us how to do that anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5021</link>
		<author>Bob</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5021</guid>
					<description>Tim, I am formulating a response.  You're grappling with the core stuff.  Back in a bit.

b</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I am formulating a response.  You&#8217;re grappling with the core stuff.  Back in a bit.</p>
<p>b</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5028</link>
		<author>Bob</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5028</guid>
					<description>It is true that "solutions" and "problems" are part and parcel of the domination paradigm.  We are a "can do" people who will overcome all obstacles and so forth.  Note that this language is also part of the scientific orietantion of the last 400 or so years.  The "problem", in the most general sense, is to identify representations, mathmatical and logical, that accurately depict a certain measureable aspect of nature. The "solution" comes in the form of ested, accurate hypothosis. This leads to technological applications - "solutions" to challenges (problems) presented by nature - overcoming nature.   Seems accurate. As Thomas Berry said, "control of nature"  - but that's the mess. Right?  Like giving a two year old a barrel of gasoline and a box of matches 

But apart from all of that, human beings have always been just a bit different.  We tend to modify the environment more, much more, than other species.  I think that's our nature.  Create and wear clothing in order to adapt to cold climates - "solution" to a "problem"?  Is this inherently destructive and out of sync with nature?  Had to learn to learn to dry meat for later (future), in order to solve the "problem" of changing seasons.  Culture emerges with sense of "future" rather than pure instincutual response to the immediate.  But not necessarily a descrutctive culture???  Is that correct?   Are our most basic characteristics and tendencies destructive?  (Maybe I'm projecting "problem"and "solution" into that fantasized earlier state of mind?)  But we do modify our surroundings - even hunter gatherers.  This has a future orientation - But not necessarily a "domination" orientaiton. correct?

I think maybe you are polarizing it too much.  We do need what may be loosely called "solutions" (though like you I am very skeptical of this word and the implied orientation).  These solutions, however, will not be aimed at continuing the current culture.  Somehow, we have to find our way to something different - completely different - unless, of course, you believe that humanity is not redemable; a total blight that should be erradicated.  (I can see how a person might come to such a conclusion).  

I think though, that you are right when you say language is important  - very.   But this is also a matter of awareness and consciousness (for lack of better word).  I'm thinking about the work of James Hillman and others in the field of archetypal psychology.  Might reread "revisioning psychology" at this time.   The problems have to do with the evolution of Western consicousness and especially what is excluded from it  -  as well as the dominiation of rational  thought, the construciton of llinear time and "progress" etc. 

Now there are people who say that the whole culture is about denying death - building human worlds that triumph (only through distracted and obfuscation - in denial), over death.   I tend to think this is right - really right.   We  must come into a new relationship with death because we don't have that in this culture and its critical  That's what was lost when the body became a souless machine that wears down.   That's got to be a part of the change here.   There is such a huge denial of death that it now appears to have taken on Frankensteinian, gargantuan proportions in the real world.  We are about to be overwhelmed  with the death that has been denied or manipulated or controlled or obscured through consumerism, the worship of youth and so forth.   So, better get a better relationship to death I'd say.    Got to be part of what we're doing here. 

Random thoughts - B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is true that &#8220;solutions&#8221; and &#8220;problems&#8221; are part and parcel of the domination paradigm.  We are a &#8220;can do&#8221; people who will overcome all obstacles and so forth.  Note that this language is also part of the scientific orietantion of the last 400 or so years.  The &#8220;problem&#8221;, in the most general sense, is to identify representations, mathmatical and logical, that accurately depict a certain measureable aspect of nature. The &#8220;solution&#8221; comes in the form of ested, accurate hypothosis. This leads to technological applications - &#8220;solutions&#8221; to challenges (problems) presented by nature - overcoming nature.   Seems accurate. As Thomas Berry said, &#8220;control of nature&#8221;  - but that&#8217;s the mess. Right?  Like giving a two year old a barrel of gasoline and a box of matches </p>
<p>But apart from all of that, human beings have always been just a bit different.  We tend to modify the environment more, much more, than other species.  I think that&#8217;s our nature.  Create and wear clothing in order to adapt to cold climates - &#8220;solution&#8221; to a &#8220;problem&#8221;?  Is this inherently destructive and out of sync with nature?  Had to learn to learn to dry meat for later (future), in order to solve the &#8220;problem&#8221; of changing seasons.  Culture emerges with sense of &#8220;future&#8221; rather than pure instincutual response to the immediate.  But not necessarily a descrutctive culture???  Is that correct?   Are our most basic characteristics and tendencies destructive?  (Maybe I&#8217;m projecting &#8220;problem&#8221;and &#8220;solution&#8221; into that fantasized earlier state of mind?)  But we do modify our surroundings - even hunter gatherers.  This has a future orientation - But not necessarily a &#8220;domination&#8221; orientaiton. correct?</p>
<p>I think maybe you are polarizing it too much.  We do need what may be loosely called &#8220;solutions&#8221; (though like you I am very skeptical of this word and the implied orientation).  These solutions, however, will not be aimed at continuing the current culture.  Somehow, we have to find our way to something different - completely different - unless, of course, you believe that humanity is not redemable; a total blight that should be erradicated.  (I can see how a person might come to such a conclusion).  </p>
<p>I think though, that you are right when you say language is important  - very.   But this is also a matter of awareness and consciousness (for lack of better word).  I&#8217;m thinking about the work of James Hillman and others in the field of archetypal psychology.  Might reread &#8220;revisioning psychology&#8221; at this time.   The problems have to do with the evolution of Western consicousness and especially what is excluded from it  -  as well as the dominiation of rational  thought, the construciton of llinear time and &#8220;progress&#8221; etc. </p>
<p>Now there are people who say that the whole culture is about denying death - building human worlds that triumph (only through distracted and obfuscation - in denial), over death.   I tend to think this is right - really right.   We  must come into a new relationship with death because we don&#8217;t have that in this culture and its critical  That&#8217;s what was lost when the body became a souless machine that wears down.   That&#8217;s got to be a part of the change here.   There is such a huge denial of death that it now appears to have taken on Frankensteinian, gargantuan proportions in the real world.  We are about to be overwhelmed  with the death that has been denied or manipulated or controlled or obscured through consumerism, the worship of youth and so forth.   So, better get a better relationship to death I&#8217;d say.    Got to be part of what we&#8217;re doing here. </p>
<p>Random thoughts - B</p>
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		<title>By: David MacLeod</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5031</link>
		<author>David MacLeod</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5031</guid>
					<description>Tim, great blog postings from you and Sally. Thank you so much for all you continue to do, and thank you for adding Bellingham to your tour.

Albert Bartlett has said "We should remember the words of Eric Sevareid; he observed that 'the chief source of problems is solutions.' This is what we encounter every day: solutions to problems just make the problems worse."

from "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy" presentation (I always say this should be required listening for every activist, environmentalist, planner, politician, scientist, theologian, philosopher, and thinker). 
http://globalpublicmedia.com/dr_albert_bartlett_arithmetic_population_and_energy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, great blog postings from you and Sally. Thank you so much for all you continue to do, and thank you for adding Bellingham to your tour.</p>
<p>Albert Bartlett has said &#8220;We should remember the words of Eric Sevareid; he observed that &#8216;the chief source of problems is solutions.&#8217; This is what we encounter every day: solutions to problems just make the problems worse.&#8221;</p>
<p>from &#8220;Arithmetic, Population, and Energy&#8221; presentation (I always say this should be required listening for every activist, environmentalist, planner, politician, scientist, theologian, philosopher, and thinker).<br />
<a href="http://globalpublicmedia.com/dr_albert_bartlett_arithmetic_population_and_energy" rel="nofollow">http://globalpublicmedia.com/dr_albert_bartlett_arithmetic_population_and_energy</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Gola</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5032</link>
		<author>Joseph Gola</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5032</guid>
					<description>Hey Tim, met you and Sally at the Seattle screening.
   I think you are really on to something here. You just really reminded me of something one would think could not be easily forgotten: we exist in a reciprocal relationship to the Gaian Mind and we have forgotten how to tune in and learn from the Gaian Mind which is now clearly sending a message - a distress signal really - and *waiting* for a response.
   We tend to forget this I think because we assume that *mind*  is all *in here* when in fact mind permeates the Gaiasphere.  Let go of *solutions* and allow ourselves to be instructed by the Wisdom of the Anima Mundi-GaiaMind?  Perhaps?  More another time.  Regards, Joseph</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tim, met you and Sally at the Seattle screening.<br />
   I think you are really on to something here. You just really reminded me of something one would think could not be easily forgotten: we exist in a reciprocal relationship to the Gaian Mind and we have forgotten how to tune in and learn from the Gaian Mind which is now clearly sending a message - a distress signal really - and *waiting* for a response.<br />
   We tend to forget this I think because we assume that *mind*  is all *in here* when in fact mind permeates the Gaiasphere.  Let go of *solutions* and allow ourselves to be instructed by the Wisdom of the Anima Mundi-GaiaMind?  Perhaps?  More another time.  Regards, Joseph</p>
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		<title>By: Ivor</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5036</link>
		<author>Ivor</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5036</guid>
					<description>I have noted the large library of books to read and I would to add one more. It is a lecture really called A Short History of Progress written by Ronald Wright. It was the 2004  CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) Massey Lecture so it is also available as a CD in Canadian Libraries at least. In the lecture Ronald Wright discusses how our tools and cultures have caused progress traps, which in turn have caused the collapse of the cultures. He starts with the prehistoric age and moves forward to present time. How human tools of hunting nearly wiped us out until we discovered agriculture how the tools of agriculture have cause the collapse of cultures and what is happening to ours present day culture. He makes the the distinction between evolutionary and cultural change. Suggesting that there is very little difference between us and our Cro-magnon ancestors on an evolutionary scale.
He offerers no "solutions" only that we have a number of examples of cultures that have failed that can light our path in creating a new culture if we are willing to look at the past.

This lecture/book was the beginning of my awakening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have noted the large library of books to read and I would to add one more. It is a lecture really called A Short History of Progress written by Ronald Wright. It was the 2004  CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) Massey Lecture so it is also available as a CD in Canadian Libraries at least. In the lecture Ronald Wright discusses how our tools and cultures have caused progress traps, which in turn have caused the collapse of the cultures. He starts with the prehistoric age and moves forward to present time. How human tools of hunting nearly wiped us out until we discovered agriculture how the tools of agriculture have cause the collapse of cultures and what is happening to ours present day culture. He makes the the distinction between evolutionary and cultural change. Suggesting that there is very little difference between us and our Cro-magnon ancestors on an evolutionary scale.<br />
He offerers no &#8220;solutions&#8221; only that we have a number of examples of cultures that have failed that can light our path in creating a new culture if we are willing to look at the past.</p>
<p>This lecture/book was the beginning of my awakening.</p>
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		<title>By: Gar</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5081</link>
		<author>Gar</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/15/repondez-sil-vous-plait-part-1/#comment-5081</guid>
					<description>Part one of the lecture Ivor mentions in his post above can be played at this link:
http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/massey/massey2004.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part one of the lecture Ivor mentions in his post above can be played at this link:<br />
<a href="http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/massey/massey2004.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/massey/massey2004.html</a></p>
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