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	<title>Comments on: The Deer Factor ~or~ Bambi vs The Collapse of Civilization</title>
	<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/</link>
	<description>A middle class white guy comes to grips with Peak Oil, Climate Change, Mass Extinction, Population Overshoot</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Michael Tobis</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5157</link>
		<author>Michael Tobis</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5157</guid>
					<description>I really appreciated your movie and am recommending it on my blog. I agree with your statement of the problem:

“somehow avoiding our headlong plunge into global mass extinction”

I sympathize with the impulse to reinvent everything, but reinventing everything is one of the things that we know doesn't work, but if I understand you right, I think your idea of the way to respond is deeply and frighteningly wrong. 

What we need is a soft landing. You don't get a soft landing by disassembling the airplane in midflight. What we need to do that is different is to find a path to sustainability that is fast enough that we have a chance of saving as much as we can but not so fast as to cause huge disruptions. 

Here's another way to look at it: if the world population crashes abruptly, the damage we will do will be far worse than if it comes down gradually. The way to avoid the mass extinction is to keep things on an even keel and gradually steer the damned thing to a safe harbor. 

Deciding things emotionally rather than rationally is  likely to crash the damned thing even faster. We have exceeded the long-term carrying capacity. That's a quantitative problem. 

Doing the least damage from there requires rigorous thinking, with numbers, and taking advantage of everything good the system provides us, like movies and the internet. And hydroelectric dams and coal sequestration and maybe even nuclear power.

The culture is confused and self-destructive, but our goal is to make the smallest change that works, because that's the one that's most likely to succeed. Call it muddy green and sneer if you want, but the right goal is to avoid the crash altogether, not to hasten it and make it deeper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really appreciated your movie and am recommending it on my blog. I agree with your statement of the problem:</p>
<p>“somehow avoiding our headlong plunge into global mass extinction”</p>
<p>I sympathize with the impulse to reinvent everything, but reinventing everything is one of the things that we know doesn&#8217;t work, but if I understand you right, I think your idea of the way to respond is deeply and frighteningly wrong. </p>
<p>What we need is a soft landing. You don&#8217;t get a soft landing by disassembling the airplane in midflight. What we need to do that is different is to find a path to sustainability that is fast enough that we have a chance of saving as much as we can but not so fast as to cause huge disruptions. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another way to look at it: if the world population crashes abruptly, the damage we will do will be far worse than if it comes down gradually. The way to avoid the mass extinction is to keep things on an even keel and gradually steer the damned thing to a safe harbor. </p>
<p>Deciding things emotionally rather than rationally is  likely to crash the damned thing even faster. We have exceeded the long-term carrying capacity. That&#8217;s a quantitative problem. </p>
<p>Doing the least damage from there requires rigorous thinking, with numbers, and taking advantage of everything good the system provides us, like movies and the internet. And hydroelectric dams and coal sequestration and maybe even nuclear power.</p>
<p>The culture is confused and self-destructive, but our goal is to make the smallest change that works, because that&#8217;s the one that&#8217;s most likely to succeed. Call it muddy green and sneer if you want, but the right goal is to avoid the crash altogether, not to hasten it and make it deeper.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5159</link>
		<author>Robin Scott</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5159</guid>
					<description>'Feel the fear and do it anyway' - Susan Jeffers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Feel the fear and do it anyway&#8217; - Susan Jeffers</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Heikkinen</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5160</link>
		<author>Phil Heikkinen</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5160</guid>
					<description>Tim,
That's a good metaphor, and a good read with which to start my week here at the library. Do you have another metaphor that applies to those of us with one foot in the working world while also preparing for life post-petro-collapse (to use the term that Jan Lundberg favors)? 
Perhaps riding two separate skateboards!? I never mastered riding one!
In terms of jobs, I'm lucky in that I can easily justify applying our library's resources in support of our relocalization efforts here.  If public libraries don't play a leading role in that, then what institutions can or will?
I'm having regular discussions with a dozen or two people, often in the library, but also elsewhere on the island, about our next steps. 
You're absolutely right about the fear response. So many of us skip that and want to go right to a solution. 
I've been living in that space where I have to keep reminding myself to take a breath, go for a run, be present, listen--because otherwise each moment can feel like an ongoing crash--that truck forever bearing down.
OK. Another breath, another conversation, professionally and/or personally.
Thanks!
Phil 
Orcas Island Public Library</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,<br />
That&#8217;s a good metaphor, and a good read with which to start my week here at the library. Do you have another metaphor that applies to those of us with one foot in the working world while also preparing for life post-petro-collapse (to use the term that Jan Lundberg favors)?<br />
Perhaps riding two separate skateboards!? I never mastered riding one!<br />
In terms of jobs, I&#8217;m lucky in that I can easily justify applying our library&#8217;s resources in support of our relocalization efforts here.  If public libraries don&#8217;t play a leading role in that, then what institutions can or will?<br />
I&#8217;m having regular discussions with a dozen or two people, often in the library, but also elsewhere on the island, about our next steps.<br />
You&#8217;re absolutely right about the fear response. So many of us skip that and want to go right to a solution.<br />
I&#8217;ve been living in that space where I have to keep reminding myself to take a breath, go for a run, be present, listen&#8211;because otherwise each moment can feel like an ongoing crash&#8211;that truck forever bearing down.<br />
OK. Another breath, another conversation, professionally and/or personally.<br />
Thanks!<br />
Phil<br />
Orcas Island Public Library</p>
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		<title>By: Norm Ballinger</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5161</link>
		<author>Norm Ballinger</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5161</guid>
					<description>Good work. Trying to imagine a life that's possible - in abeyance to what civilization has required, the big meaty fist of American capitalism in particular  - is taking a while to bring into focus. Plenty of folks are shackled by their fear and seemingly choose to remain so because, well, it's their fear. Guilt lends a mighty hand as when someone who knows they're damned goes willingly to punishment. Some say it's staying with devil they know. I say it's the culturally induced trauma that makes it so. Our shame no longer blushes because shame is so normal.

So I'm wondering, what does this truck you're talking about look like? The last line of your letter, "Bring it on" sounds good maybe to a 13 yr old or someone who doesn't know what you're talking about. I think we can agree that it has the shape of a juggernaut and that a lot of what we love will be snuffed out. It may take some kind of strange attractor, maybe even a new form of gravity to get people, even our loved ones, to stand in front of an oncoming truck.

In any case, thanks for doing the necessary work of telling people what they don't want to hear. I can't help but think of  a number of poets, going back at least to Wm Blake, who detected the patterns of the time we're now in, but could not keep us from jumping on the shit slide.

regards
Norm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good work. Trying to imagine a life that&#8217;s possible - in abeyance to what civilization has required, the big meaty fist of American capitalism in particular  - is taking a while to bring into focus. Plenty of folks are shackled by their fear and seemingly choose to remain so because, well, it&#8217;s their fear. Guilt lends a mighty hand as when someone who knows they&#8217;re damned goes willingly to punishment. Some say it&#8217;s staying with devil they know. I say it&#8217;s the culturally induced trauma that makes it so. Our shame no longer blushes because shame is so normal.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m wondering, what does this truck you&#8217;re talking about look like? The last line of your letter, &#8220;Bring it on&#8221; sounds good maybe to a 13 yr old or someone who doesn&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re talking about. I think we can agree that it has the shape of a juggernaut and that a lot of what we love will be snuffed out. It may take some kind of strange attractor, maybe even a new form of gravity to get people, even our loved ones, to stand in front of an oncoming truck.</p>
<p>In any case, thanks for doing the necessary work of telling people what they don&#8217;t want to hear. I can&#8217;t help but think of  a number of poets, going back at least to Wm Blake, who detected the patterns of the time we&#8217;re now in, but could not keep us from jumping on the shit slide.</p>
<p>regards<br />
Norm</p>
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		<title>By: auntiegrav</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5162</link>
		<author>auntiegrav</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5162</guid>
					<description>"Knock knock. Who’s there? Climate change. Oh fuck."
Great line. 
Also this one:
"So how much do we have in our wallets? Who are we going to be?"
Except it's backward in priority. First, before ALL else, and I mean ALL else, we must ask ourselves as individuals, as groups, and as a species: "What are we going to be doing for the universe?" Every other life form has a place to improve the ecosystem. We have separated ourselves from the real universe with religions, 'civil'izations, and competitive behaviors. Growing up means we have to find our place in the chain and do what we can to improve it, rather than consume everything we can fit into our cakeholes or our furnaces and factories.
Growing up means moderation in all things. Even moderation.
Your deer example is good, but you should get the "Bambi" movie and watch the part with the grouse as the hunters are coming:
"Gotta fly gotta fly gotta fly"
"No! Wait! Wait! Wait!"
"Gotta fly gotta fly gotta FLY!!!!" (taking off)
BLAM!!!

That's what our System of Systems is trying to do: Trying to fly our way out of danger using resources we don't have. Trying to buy our way out of debt. Trying to spend our way out of bankruptcy. 
All these things are undertaken without asking, "What are People For?"
Survival isn't an answer. Consumerism is simply Blind Faith. To truly Grow Up, we have to Grow Down. Descent is the only viable option. We have to decide who and how far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Knock knock. Who’s there? Climate change. Oh fuck.&#8221;<br />
Great line.<br />
Also this one:<br />
&#8220;So how much do we have in our wallets? Who are we going to be?&#8221;<br />
Except it&#8217;s backward in priority. First, before ALL else, and I mean ALL else, we must ask ourselves as individuals, as groups, and as a species: &#8220;What are we going to be doing for the universe?&#8221; Every other life form has a place to improve the ecosystem. We have separated ourselves from the real universe with religions, &#8216;civil&#8217;izations, and competitive behaviors. Growing up means we have to find our place in the chain and do what we can to improve it, rather than consume everything we can fit into our cakeholes or our furnaces and factories.<br />
Growing up means moderation in all things. Even moderation.<br />
Your deer example is good, but you should get the &#8220;Bambi&#8221; movie and watch the part with the grouse as the hunters are coming:<br />
&#8220;Gotta fly gotta fly gotta fly&#8221;<br />
&#8220;No! Wait! Wait! Wait!&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Gotta fly gotta fly gotta FLY!!!!&#8221; (taking off)<br />
BLAM!!!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what our System of Systems is trying to do: Trying to fly our way out of danger using resources we don&#8217;t have. Trying to buy our way out of debt. Trying to spend our way out of bankruptcy.<br />
All these things are undertaken without asking, &#8220;What are People For?&#8221;<br />
Survival isn&#8217;t an answer. Consumerism is simply Blind Faith. To truly Grow Up, we have to Grow Down. Descent is the only viable option. We have to decide who and how far.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Shipsky</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5163</link>
		<author>Jim Shipsky</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5163</guid>
					<description>Thank you, Tim, for saying what so few are willing to say. I'm seeing getting ready for the truck impact as a bootstraps operation. Here I am just coming awake to my complex post traumatic stress disorder resulting from growing up in the USA. I'm undiagnosed, except by myself, and no one wants to hear about it, because everyone I try to tell about it is in the same boat and gets scared when I start talking about it, and very tense and uncomfortable and the tension level skyrockets and I know I have to let it go. Derrick has convinced me I'm insane, living in an insane culture. I feel like I'm in the loony bin with no therapists. Those of us in here who have at least partially awakened need to invent our own therapy. I got from Chellis that it helps to keep telling my story and feeling the feelings. Over and over. It helps to form a tribe. It helps to get out of my insane head in a communal drumming circle. It helps to do communal Sacred Circle Dancing. It helps to do, in community, The Work That Reconnects. It helps to see how close to zero emissions I can move my life. But I want more! I am facilitating the creation of Zero Emissions Communities, where people can live a sustainable lifestyle, comprised of communal emotional/spiritual/loving support, and 100% renewable energy. Zero carbon emissions. Permaculture gardens. No cars. Unplugged from the medias. Recovery from addictions, whether money, possessions, busyness, television, substances, etc. Americans desperately need some examples of how to live as humans once lived and can live again. I don't think we can go backwards. But for the 70% of Americans who live in non-sustainable suburbs, we can go forward to alternate sustainable lifestyles. It's not rocket science. It needs to stgart, as you so well wrote, with feeling my feelijhngs of fear and despair and joy and exhilaration. Heartfully, Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Tim, for saying what so few are willing to say. I&#8217;m seeing getting ready for the truck impact as a bootstraps operation. Here I am just coming awake to my complex post traumatic stress disorder resulting from growing up in the USA. I&#8217;m undiagnosed, except by myself, and no one wants to hear about it, because everyone I try to tell about it is in the same boat and gets scared when I start talking about it, and very tense and uncomfortable and the tension level skyrockets and I know I have to let it go. Derrick has convinced me I&#8217;m insane, living in an insane culture. I feel like I&#8217;m in the loony bin with no therapists. Those of us in here who have at least partially awakened need to invent our own therapy. I got from Chellis that it helps to keep telling my story and feeling the feelings. Over and over. It helps to form a tribe. It helps to get out of my insane head in a communal drumming circle. It helps to do communal Sacred Circle Dancing. It helps to do, in community, The Work That Reconnects. It helps to see how close to zero emissions I can move my life. But I want more! I am facilitating the creation of Zero Emissions Communities, where people can live a sustainable lifestyle, comprised of communal emotional/spiritual/loving support, and 100% renewable energy. Zero carbon emissions. Permaculture gardens. No cars. Unplugged from the medias. Recovery from addictions, whether money, possessions, busyness, television, substances, etc. Americans desperately need some examples of how to live as humans once lived and can live again. I don&#8217;t think we can go backwards. But for the 70% of Americans who live in non-sustainable suburbs, we can go forward to alternate sustainable lifestyles. It&#8217;s not rocket science. It needs to stgart, as you so well wrote, with feeling my feelijhngs of fear and despair and joy and exhilaration. Heartfully, Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Foster</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5168</link>
		<author>Linda Foster</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5168</guid>
					<description>Re: Jim Shipsky's response.  I'm in.  Where do I sign up for the Zero Emissions Communities?  

All of this is very frightening, but I am a person who has always wanted to know what I am dealing with as far as a dread disease, global warming to the point of mass extinction, and the rest of the dreads.

I have joined a Simplicity Circle, but I also want to join something similar that deals with all the issues that face our world and its rather shaky future.  I think this all has to start on the community level if we ever hope to reach the powers that be.  The communities have to become the powers that be.  That is probably the direcrtion this will have to go because I don't see any national politcal or government level individuals or agencies or parties who are addressing this.  Too scary I suppose to even acknowledge it and have the sound bite play on the six o'clock news.  Could be a deal breaker with the voting public next November.

Jim also mentioned post traumatic stress disorder as a wide scale cultural disorder.  I think he has a point with that.  That could explain a great deal of the behavior we see everyday.

The calculated denial of many people about what is happening is wide spread and is not going to be easy to change.  They are comfortable in their denial and their rejection of bad news.  We have been manipulated by fear to keep us in this horrible war in Iraq.  We have been manipulated by anti-fear to keep us from taking global warming seriously.  I for one am getting tired of being manipulated for someone else's short term gain and greed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Jim Shipsky&#8217;s response.  I&#8217;m in.  Where do I sign up for the Zero Emissions Communities?  </p>
<p>All of this is very frightening, but I am a person who has always wanted to know what I am dealing with as far as a dread disease, global warming to the point of mass extinction, and the rest of the dreads.</p>
<p>I have joined a Simplicity Circle, but I also want to join something similar that deals with all the issues that face our world and its rather shaky future.  I think this all has to start on the community level if we ever hope to reach the powers that be.  The communities have to become the powers that be.  That is probably the direcrtion this will have to go because I don&#8217;t see any national politcal or government level individuals or agencies or parties who are addressing this.  Too scary I suppose to even acknowledge it and have the sound bite play on the six o&#8217;clock news.  Could be a deal breaker with the voting public next November.</p>
<p>Jim also mentioned post traumatic stress disorder as a wide scale cultural disorder.  I think he has a point with that.  That could explain a great deal of the behavior we see everyday.</p>
<p>The calculated denial of many people about what is happening is wide spread and is not going to be easy to change.  They are comfortable in their denial and their rejection of bad news.  We have been manipulated by fear to keep us in this horrible war in Iraq.  We have been manipulated by anti-fear to keep us from taking global warming seriously.  I for one am getting tired of being manipulated for someone else&#8217;s short term gain and greed.</p>
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		<title>By: Virginia Simson</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5175</link>
		<author>Virginia Simson</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5175</guid>
					<description>My whole blog is about DENIAL, the death of delusion, trauma and what people are DOing about.  Less babble, more DO.  I honestly think people avoid reading it because it does what I mean it to do - make them FEEL something.

There is a point when we must get over the cognitive dissonance (what we are TOLD is happening verus what we THINK is happening versus what is REALLY happening being all at variance) confront the inevitable overwhelm and get on with it.

I have post traumatic stress disorder, compounded. I can't think of a single person who doesn't have it to one degree or another - the Cuban Missile crisis rocked people to their bones as suddenly the reality of nuclear annihilation was addressed to THEM, there in the belly of the beast, America, and it's been fight or flight ever since - or alternatively, profound dissociation. But it's time to start getting with a daily program of recovery admittting to yourself you can never fully recover but you can be honest about it and start telling your REAL story to others.

I wrote a series of columns on dealing with PTSD this year.  They had a political AND a social context in them and it pissed people off.  Not surprising, but not very healthy.  Lots of people think that this affliction is for the middle class alone - well, it is not.  It affects everyone.  Like every other dysfunction it's no repecter of class, sex, race but again we CAN do something about it but not be being SELF centred; that only makes it worse.

Once people "transition" into REALizing that we really are interdependent, and treats each other as an intrinsic part of LIFE, then maybe we can end the wars, make economic sense .. and it's really putting one foot in front of the other each and every day that's going to get one there, with our arms outstretched towards others; not with our hands holding everything in towards our solar plexus.  We can SCREAM, shout, do all sorts of normal human behaviour if we  but take the time and QUIT taking the friggin meds.

Great essay .. I'm glad someone forwarded it to me, as I could not agree more.

Do drop by my blog and see what I found to do with myself.  It's my attempt to give something back to life and recover myself.  It's like one huge long poster to real psychic health for a person and for the planet.  The links should tell you something about what's on there.

Thanks for letting me spout off.

www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My whole blog is about DENIAL, the death of delusion, trauma and what people are DOing about.  Less babble, more DO.  I honestly think people avoid reading it because it does what I mean it to do - make them FEEL something.</p>
<p>There is a point when we must get over the cognitive dissonance (what we are TOLD is happening verus what we THINK is happening versus what is REALLY happening being all at variance) confront the inevitable overwhelm and get on with it.</p>
<p>I have post traumatic stress disorder, compounded. I can&#8217;t think of a single person who doesn&#8217;t have it to one degree or another - the Cuban Missile crisis rocked people to their bones as suddenly the reality of nuclear annihilation was addressed to THEM, there in the belly of the beast, America, and it&#8217;s been fight or flight ever since - or alternatively, profound dissociation. But it&#8217;s time to start getting with a daily program of recovery admittting to yourself you can never fully recover but you can be honest about it and start telling your REAL story to others.</p>
<p>I wrote a series of columns on dealing with PTSD this year.  They had a political AND a social context in them and it pissed people off.  Not surprising, but not very healthy.  Lots of people think that this affliction is for the middle class alone - well, it is not.  It affects everyone.  Like every other dysfunction it&#8217;s no repecter of class, sex, race but again we CAN do something about it but not be being SELF centred; that only makes it worse.</p>
<p>Once people &#8220;transition&#8221; into REALizing that we really are interdependent, and treats each other as an intrinsic part of LIFE, then maybe we can end the wars, make economic sense .. and it&#8217;s really putting one foot in front of the other each and every day that&#8217;s going to get one there, with our arms outstretched towards others; not with our hands holding everything in towards our solar plexus.  We can SCREAM, shout, do all sorts of normal human behaviour if we  but take the time and QUIT taking the friggin meds.</p>
<p>Great essay .. I&#8217;m glad someone forwarded it to me, as I could not agree more.</p>
<p>Do drop by my blog and see what I found to do with myself.  It&#8217;s my attempt to give something back to life and recover myself.  It&#8217;s like one huge long poster to real psychic health for a person and for the planet.  The links should tell you something about what&#8217;s on there.</p>
<p>Thanks for letting me spout off.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Larry Irwin</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5176</link>
		<author>Larry Irwin</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5176</guid>
					<description>This blog is a great tongue-in-cheek overview of many common methods of trying to come to terms with issues of great import where one feels small and impotent...
I have simple method: I do what I can, within the means that I have, to contribute what I can, where I think it will have the greatest positive impact.
Beyond that, I am sure our planet will take care of itself... It won't neccsarily be nice, but it will be effective. -- My point is that all the worry that everyone has is all based upon "when" everything will crumble. -- And they are right in the sense that the less we try to solve, the faster it will crumble. -- But, it will crumble at some point no matter what we do...
In the grand scheme of things we are totally insignificant. Earth is insignificant. Our solar system is but a spec of dust...
Life will come and go on Earth, but it will eventually go... completely...
So it comes down to "when"... We can spend our lives in fear, in worry, in all sorts of states of mind...


1) Emotions like "fear" and "anger" are useful when we have to fight. I don't see why anyone would want to suppress such useful things. But to experience "fear" based upon all the media presentations of impending doom is to be totally gullible if not somewhat mental... If you live in fear, it means you worry about everything. It's hard to live very long if you are truly experiencing fear. Fear is meant to help you make it through scary, short-lived experiences.  "Worry" isn't useful... except to prod one into action. So, I try to _immediately_ convert any worry into actions within my means and to mentally invalidate any worrys outside my means. Worry must be dealt with and discarded, quickly.
2) Believe nothing without evidence. Be prepared to change beliefs when presented with new evidence. 3) Question sources of all evidence. All sources have agendas that skew the data.
4) Realize that all the things that have ever happened on Earth are actually insignificant. We do want "now" to be the best it can be, but don't ruin your life over it... Make the best of it.

Larry Irwin
lrirwin@alum.wustl.edu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This blog is a great tongue-in-cheek overview of many common methods of trying to come to terms with issues of great import where one feels small and impotent&#8230;<br />
I have simple method: I do what I can, within the means that I have, to contribute what I can, where I think it will have the greatest positive impact.<br />
Beyond that, I am sure our planet will take care of itself&#8230; It won&#8217;t neccsarily be nice, but it will be effective. &#8212; My point is that all the worry that everyone has is all based upon &#8220;when&#8221; everything will crumble. &#8212; And they are right in the sense that the less we try to solve, the faster it will crumble. &#8212; But, it will crumble at some point no matter what we do&#8230;<br />
In the grand scheme of things we are totally insignificant. Earth is insignificant. Our solar system is but a spec of dust&#8230;<br />
Life will come and go on Earth, but it will eventually go&#8230; completely&#8230;<br />
So it comes down to &#8220;when&#8221;&#8230; We can spend our lives in fear, in worry, in all sorts of states of mind&#8230;</p>
<p>1) Emotions like &#8220;fear&#8221; and &#8220;anger&#8221; are useful when we have to fight. I don&#8217;t see why anyone would want to suppress such useful things. But to experience &#8220;fear&#8221; based upon all the media presentations of impending doom is to be totally gullible if not somewhat mental&#8230; If you live in fear, it means you worry about everything. It&#8217;s hard to live very long if you are truly experiencing fear. Fear is meant to help you make it through scary, short-lived experiences.  &#8220;Worry&#8221; isn&#8217;t useful&#8230; except to prod one into action. So, I try to _immediately_ convert any worry into actions within my means and to mentally invalidate any worrys outside my means. Worry must be dealt with and discarded, quickly.<br />
2) Believe nothing without evidence. Be prepared to change beliefs when presented with new evidence. 3) Question sources of all evidence. All sources have agendas that skew the data.<br />
4) Realize that all the things that have ever happened on Earth are actually insignificant. We do want &#8220;now&#8221; to be the best it can be, but don&#8217;t ruin your life over it&#8230; Make the best of it.</p>
<p>Larry Irwin<br />
<a href="mailto:lrirwin@alum.wustl.edu">lrirwin@alum.wustl.edu</a></p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5183</link>
		<author>Fred</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5183</guid>
					<description>Well said Larry.  I believe this might be the next step in the conversation, and in the process of growing up and initiation.  Personally, I think the truck is too close to move out of the way, or to survive impact.  Facing this soberly is my challenge.  It's true, to the Universe (that infinity out there-and in here)  this planet, and all the life on it is completely insignificant.  Many will argue that point.  I usually find those arguments indulging in self-importance.  I believe self-importance is an enemy.  And fear can be an enemy, or at least a worthy adversary. Useful too, as you said.  For me the question is, how do I choose to feel, to live, to act, right now, given the certainty that death is right around the corner.  In a way this is the perspective that we've been running away from by building the industrial infrastructure.  Perhaps the deer, when faced with the inevitability of impact and death might choose to honor the truck.  What a way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Larry.  I believe this might be the next step in the conversation, and in the process of growing up and initiation.  Personally, I think the truck is too close to move out of the way, or to survive impact.  Facing this soberly is my challenge.  It&#8217;s true, to the Universe (that infinity out there-and in here)  this planet, and all the life on it is completely insignificant.  Many will argue that point.  I usually find those arguments indulging in self-importance.  I believe self-importance is an enemy.  And fear can be an enemy, or at least a worthy adversary. Useful too, as you said.  For me the question is, how do I choose to feel, to live, to act, right now, given the certainty that death is right around the corner.  In a way this is the perspective that we&#8217;ve been running away from by building the industrial infrastructure.  Perhaps the deer, when faced with the inevitability of impact and death might choose to honor the truck.  What a way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Monika</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5190</link>
		<author>Monika</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5190</guid>
					<description>Where there is fear there is power
Passion is the healer.
Desire cracks open the gate
If you're ready it'll take you through.

But nothing lasts forever
Time is the destroyer.
The wheel turns again and again
Watch out! It'll take you through.

But nothing dies forever
Nature is the renewer.
The wheel turns again and again
If you're ready it'll take you through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where there is fear there is power<br />
Passion is the healer.<br />
Desire cracks open the gate<br />
If you&#8217;re ready it&#8217;ll take you through.</p>
<p>But nothing lasts forever<br />
Time is the destroyer.<br />
The wheel turns again and again<br />
Watch out! It&#8217;ll take you through.</p>
<p>But nothing dies forever<br />
Nature is the renewer.<br />
The wheel turns again and again<br />
If you&#8217;re ready it&#8217;ll take you through.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5199</link>
		<author>Dan</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5199</guid>
					<description>Naomi Wolf, author of “The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot”, was on Democracy Now yesterday.  She has looked closely at the current political situation in the US, and sounds genuinely (and appropriately, IMHO) scared:

"I mean, this one scares me to death. You know, Mussolini developed -- again, a parliamentary democracy, Italy was, in the teens and into 1920. He developed the Blackshirts, which were these paramilitary thugs that beat up newspaper editors, terrorized the population, and they intimidated people counting the vote in Milan. And then Hitler ...developed the Brownshirts, the SA, who intimidated people counting the vote in Austria. .... And you saw this scene of identically dressed Republican staffers in Florida in 2000 intimidating people counting the vote. 



...things like that are ....more and more chilling as -- I think right now people are kind of ramping up their awareness of these echoes, and what you also see predictably, because the blueprint is predictive, is that the White House is ramping up its implementation of some of the scariest aspects of its crackdown. 



...what’s so scary about Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and these black sites around the world -- apart from the moral issue ...it’s our own American souls that are at stake. But just for purely personal reasons, we should be afraid when the state starts to torture people that it sees as at the margins or that citizens see at the margins: brown people on an island in Guantanamo with Muslim names, whatever. That’s what they did in Germany in ’31, ’32: anarchists, communists, Gypsies, Jews, whatever, homosexuals, whatever. You know, people didn’t care, because they were seen as at the margins. People knew about the torture cellars in Germany. 

But then, what always happens, always -- you can’t name a society in which this doesn’t happen, Amy -- is that there’s a blurring of the line. And once the state legalizes torture of people at the margins, inevitably it will begin to direct state abuse at people at the heart of civil society, and it’s always the same cast of characters: journalists, editors, opposition leaders, outspoken clergy and labor leaders. And when that starts to happen, society can close down in a heartbeat, because people start to sensor themselves.



I just want to note about the blurring of the line why we’re in such a moment of danger right now. The President has said that he can say, “Amy Goodman, you’re an enemy combatant. Naomi Wolf, you’re an enemy combatant. ... He can take us, and if he says it’s true, that makes it true, because it’s a status offense, and he can put us in a ten-by-twelve-foot cell in a Navy brig in solitary confinement for three years, making it difficult for us to see our families, to contact an attorney, to get charges filed. 

They can’t torture us yet, though I was chilled to learn that an adviser to the White House was reported in a British newspaper yesterday as not ruling out waterboarding against US citizens. However, psychologists know that prolonged isolation makes sane people insane. That’s what happened to Jose Padilla. So, you know, when I say everyone’s got their moment at which they start to silence themselves, the day I read in the New York Times that someone I identify with has been named an enemy combatant and is sitting in a Navy brig in isolation, that’s when I’m going to stop talking in a context like this, because that’s when I will become too afraid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naomi Wolf, author of “The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot”, was on Democracy Now yesterday.  She has looked closely at the current political situation in the US, and sounds genuinely (and appropriately, IMHO) scared:</p>
<p>&#8220;I mean, this one scares me to death. You know, Mussolini developed &#8212; again, a parliamentary democracy, Italy was, in the teens and into 1920. He developed the Blackshirts, which were these paramilitary thugs that beat up newspaper editors, terrorized the population, and they intimidated people counting the vote in Milan. And then Hitler &#8230;developed the Brownshirts, the SA, who intimidated people counting the vote in Austria. &#8230;. And you saw this scene of identically dressed Republican staffers in Florida in 2000 intimidating people counting the vote. </p>
<p>&#8230;things like that are &#8230;.more and more chilling as &#8212; I think right now people are kind of ramping up their awareness of these echoes, and what you also see predictably, because the blueprint is predictive, is that the White House is ramping up its implementation of some of the scariest aspects of its crackdown. </p>
<p>&#8230;what’s so scary about Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and these black sites around the world &#8212; apart from the moral issue &#8230;it’s our own American souls that are at stake. But just for purely personal reasons, we should be afraid when the state starts to torture people that it sees as at the margins or that citizens see at the margins: brown people on an island in Guantanamo with Muslim names, whatever. That’s what they did in Germany in ’31, ’32: anarchists, communists, Gypsies, Jews, whatever, homosexuals, whatever. You know, people didn’t care, because they were seen as at the margins. People knew about the torture cellars in Germany. </p>
<p>But then, what always happens, always &#8212; you can’t name a society in which this doesn’t happen, Amy &#8212; is that there’s a blurring of the line. And once the state legalizes torture of people at the margins, inevitably it will begin to direct state abuse at people at the heart of civil society, and it’s always the same cast of characters: journalists, editors, opposition leaders, outspoken clergy and labor leaders. And when that starts to happen, society can close down in a heartbeat, because people start to sensor themselves.</p>
<p>I just want to note about the blurring of the line why we’re in such a moment of danger right now. The President has said that he can say, “Amy Goodman, you’re an enemy combatant. Naomi Wolf, you’re an enemy combatant. &#8230; He can take us, and if he says it’s true, that makes it true, because it’s a status offense, and he can put us in a ten-by-twelve-foot cell in a Navy brig in solitary confinement for three years, making it difficult for us to see our families, to contact an attorney, to get charges filed. </p>
<p>They can’t torture us yet, though I was chilled to learn that an adviser to the White House was reported in a British newspaper yesterday as not ruling out waterboarding against US citizens. However, psychologists know that prolonged isolation makes sane people insane. That’s what happened to Jose Padilla. So, you know, when I say everyone’s got their moment at which they start to silence themselves, the day I read in the New York Times that someone I identify with has been named an enemy combatant and is sitting in a Navy brig in isolation, that’s when I’m going to stop talking in a context like this, because that’s when I will become too afraid.</p>
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		<title>By: jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5231</link>
		<author>jimmy</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 07:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5231</guid>
					<description>Not sure what a "Simplicity Circle" is but we have formed a discussion group in our community based arround the books - Voluntary Simplicity and Promise Ahead   by Duane Elgin

http://www.soulfulliving.com/voluntarysimplicity.htm

http://www.awakeningearth.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure what a &#8220;Simplicity Circle&#8221; is but we have formed a discussion group in our community based arround the books - Voluntary Simplicity and Promise Ahead   by Duane Elgin</p>
<p><a href="http://www.soulfulliving.com/voluntarysimplicity.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.soulfulliving.com/voluntarysimplicity.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.awakeningearth.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.awakeningearth.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Gola</title>
		<link>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5255</link>
		<author>Joseph Gola</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/11/26/the-deer-factor-or-bambi-vs-the-collapse-of-civilization/#comment-5255</guid>
					<description>Interesting Tim, because it was I who brought up the issue of our *large brains* at the Seattle screening and briefly talked to Sally.
   What I mentioned was the fact that your doc pushed me deeply back into a consideration of things I went through when I read Chellis Glendinning in 2002. 
   It seemed counterintuitive to me at the time (2002) that we were screwed the moment we began the process of civilization, and that it was destined for a Dark Age Crash before we had even begun to really spiritually evolve as a race.
     I - and I am sure many others  - thought that all the great mystics, esoteric spiritual traditions and visionaries and all the great works of art were previews of a re-spiritualized humanity, a redemption from The Fall, a global spiritual Renaissance.
   So when I mentioned our *big brains* I was refering to the incredible spectrum of spiritual realities that big brain is capable of, and that we were in the process of what has been called the *shamanization of humanity* which was destined to end, not in a catastrophic collapse but a New Age.
   In other words, I was coming from the pov of transpersonal psychology and esoteric spirituality.
   From this pov - and the Western esoteric Tradition  in its occasional manifestations in the Rosacrucians and some Freemasons - the Great Chain of Being is not the vulgar rationalist chain that simply puts the conventionally civilized human at the top, but  regards the conventional civilized human as an undeveloped, larval form, and envisions a spiritual evolution of the human way, way beyond this larval form.  
   So what we have here is a situation where we humans now have - for the first time in our known history (the possibility exists that the origins of our known civilizational streams began from the fragments of a previous civilizational cycle)   total and global access to all the great esoteric spiritual Traditions - from aboriginal and shamanism to Mahayana Buddhism, and, just at this oh-so-hopeful point where we have the opportunity to spiritually eveolve on a mass scale, on a truly global scale......WHAM - we get hit by the truck and Crash into a Dark Age........
   This situation is - to say the least - a shocking surprise for a lot of us.  To be continued.  Warm regards, Joseph</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting Tim, because it was I who brought up the issue of our *large brains* at the Seattle screening and briefly talked to Sally.<br />
   What I mentioned was the fact that your doc pushed me deeply back into a consideration of things I went through when I read Chellis Glendinning in 2002.<br />
   It seemed counterintuitive to me at the time (2002) that we were screwed the moment we began the process of civilization, and that it was destined for a Dark Age Crash before we had even begun to really spiritually evolve as a race.<br />
     I - and I am sure many others  - thought that all the great mystics, esoteric spiritual traditions and visionaries and all the great works of art were previews of a re-spiritualized humanity, a redemption from The Fall, a global spiritual Renaissance.<br />
   So when I mentioned our *big brains* I was refering to the incredible spectrum of spiritual realities that big brain is capable of, and that we were in the process of what has been called the *shamanization of humanity* which was destined to end, not in a catastrophic collapse but a New Age.<br />
   In other words, I was coming from the pov of transpersonal psychology and esoteric spirituality.<br />
   From this pov - and the Western esoteric Tradition  in its occasional manifestations in the Rosacrucians and some Freemasons - the Great Chain of Being is not the vulgar rationalist chain that simply puts the conventionally civilized human at the top, but  regards the conventional civilized human as an undeveloped, larval form, and envisions a spiritual evolution of the human way, way beyond this larval form.<br />
   So what we have here is a situation where we humans now have - for the first time in our known history (the possibility exists that the origins of our known civilizational streams began from the fragments of a previous civilizational cycle)   total and global access to all the great esoteric spiritual Traditions - from aboriginal and shamanism to Mahayana Buddhism, and, just at this oh-so-hopeful point where we have the opportunity to spiritually eveolve on a mass scale, on a truly global scale&#8230;&#8230;WHAM - we get hit by the truck and Crash into a Dark Age&#8230;&#8230;..<br />
   This situation is - to say the least - a shocking surprise for a lot of us.  To be continued.  Warm regards, Joseph</p>
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